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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts kate valentine and Farrugia

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prepare to have your paradigms shifted

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in the truth questioned and now

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shattered reality hey today is our 13th

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show this is going to be lucky 13 and

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this is Farrugia and heike valentine

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here we have an incredible guest today

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John be Alexander PhD is our guest today

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and he is an amazing guy the simplest

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way to express this is to say that it

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seems to me that he has packed five

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lifetimes of activities and

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accomplishments into one and he's not

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done yet if I were to list all of his

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awards and his accomplishments it would

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take half the show so succinctly here it

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goes and he can certainly correct me if

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I'm estate something he was born in New

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York and entered the army in 1956 he

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commanded a special forces a team in

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Vietnam and in Thailand he had he headed

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the weird desk at the Defense

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Intelligence Agency and he started the

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advanced theoretical physics project

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group while he was still enlisted it was

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a cover to meet with others in

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government to discuss what they knew

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about UFOs he's written several books

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including UFOs myths conspiracies and

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realities and has been written about in

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the Jon Ronson book the men who stare at

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goats he knows all about remote viewing

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has spent time at the sherman skinwalker

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Bigelow ranch he has traveled around the

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world investigating shamanism he knows

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just about everybody in the paranormal

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world and in the intelligence field and

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took his PhD under kuebler ross in

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natali or the study of the death and

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near-death experience he is an expert in

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non-lethal weaponry and after he left

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the military with the rank of colonel of

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infantry he worked in the field of

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non-lethal weaponry at the los alamos

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national labs recently he gave a paper

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about interspecies communications in

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Washington at the Society for scientific

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exploration which he helped to found

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welcome dr. Alexander well like you one

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correction as I was never with Dia so oh

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ok wonder where that came from i guess

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it was at your time at the Pentagon so

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inspector general ok you didn't sit at

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the desk where all the strange reports

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came in there is no such desk how can

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turn as part of what we can discuss ok

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but dr. Alexander let me also give my

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thanks for you taking this time to be

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with us you certainly have had a

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fascinating life's journey and thank you

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for you know for deigning to talk to us

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today if I could just quote just to

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start since my area is sort of UFOs

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that's what I like ah you stayed in your

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book UFOs are real with no prevarication

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or qualification of terms there are

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physical objects of unknown origin that

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do transit our universe and I thank you

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for saying that because that's really a

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paragraph obviously yeah oh it was you

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know your book usually I'll blaze

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through a book mountain of two hours

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maybe I still haven't quite finished it

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i'll be honest i've been reading for

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hours it's well maybe i should tell you

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the last paragraph jumping to the end

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because i think that's equally important

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I've got it right here and yes please go

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ahead pleased involve synthesize it says

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whatever we're dealing with it is more

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complex than we ever imagined or maybe

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then we could imagine and I think rather

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than getting simple answers we're not at

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the point of even asking

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the right questions yes unfortunately I

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have to agree with you i would i would

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agree as well but you know it occurred

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to me because i'm reading your book i'm

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sitting in the backyard and we are on a

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flight path from newark airport and i'm

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watching these planes go overhead and

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i'm thinking if i had been a Native

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American in the same location and so you

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know I don't know I go 760 set whatever

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the commercial planes are go overhead I

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would think whoa and I couldn't begin to

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understand what it was I mean I know it

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was up there it was flying and it was

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unexplainable but even if someone had

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landed and said well this is what it is

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it's jet propulsion and special metals

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and we have to take off and land a blah

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blah blah whatever it would have been as

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if they had spoken Greek and I have a

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feeling you're correct that's probably

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what if the UFO occupants if there are

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such would come down and speak to us

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it's probably wouldn't really help us

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much that's the problem and it's a UFO

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occupants I'll start with simple things

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like what's a UFO and the reason I say

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that is we have stories of little balls

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of light that are floating around and

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then we've got these hard craft probably

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more than a mile across seen by lots of

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witnesses and everything in between you

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know thousands of perturbations so to

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begin with I'm not even sure what we

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mean when we say I've seen a UFO other

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that's something that's you know flying

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about that we can't identify the other

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piece that I think is equally important

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if we're going to talk about ill alien

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encounters and things like that is that

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there have been reports of interactions

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between humans and sentient nonhumans

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throughout Hill recorded history and the

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UFO piece of that is really kind of do

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basically since the end of the second

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world war though there were things going

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on back to

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the 1880s or 1890s with the airships

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millennia no I'm saying that the modern

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preservations of that would have started

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mostly a post-world war two with a

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little bit of a nod to ghost rockets and

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so forth but but millennia people I mean

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Ezekiel's wheel and and and such and

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throughout history there have been

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sightings of things unexplainable things

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in the sky absolutely and and it really

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may not be all the same thing I'm

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guessing it may you know it could be

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somewhere from space somewhere from a

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different dimension some from the future

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some of them are of the some of the

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vehicles of so-called vehicles may be

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living beings I mean for all we know

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there's certain things that would lead

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us to believe that sometimes that might

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be the case well there are certainly no

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simple solutions I don't think we're

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going to have an answer we're one size

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fits all by any stretch of the

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imagination and you know frankly I'll

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get my mantra in here because people say

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why are you doing this and what I think

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needs to happen is you get serious

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scientists involved in the study and

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make it permissible for them to do so

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without risking their livelihood or

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reputation and the problem for many

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people and there are serious scientists

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who are interested but they'll also tell

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you you know hey don't put my name out

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there I suppose they will be attacked

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dr. Alexander isn't this really though

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part of a larger problem that we have

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with science since even even since it's

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been over a hundred years since quantum

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physics was born many people actually

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day to day in science are still living

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in the 19th century materialistic

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concept and they're not open to other

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explanations they're not open to shall

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we say consciousness as a big part of

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this enigma

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oh well that's the fundamental problem

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and you know we now politicized science

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to high degree you see all arguments

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going on them you know from healthcare

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to global climate change and a whole

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host of areas and the issue is quite

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frankly or politically and economically

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driven as opposed to being driven by the

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facts Dean Radin likes to say you know

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if cyber a crime it would be you know

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convicted easily many evidences beyond

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all reasonable doubt yes so um you have

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explained in your book but perhaps you

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would like to talk to our listeners a

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little bit about how you decided to

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first get into this because as I

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understand it you have not had a lot of

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UFO encounters yourself now my one

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experience was really pretty pretty

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mundane having said that other members

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of my family have been had experiences

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that are much more germane than mine but

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you know I say in the book my interest

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goes back to nineteen forty-seven with

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you know they first started making news

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and I was a you know student in the

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great great school at that time and for

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whatever reason this various kinds of

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phenomena just have almost struck me is

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extremely interesting I I think you know

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that that's true of many people in the

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field but if I may again quote from you

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and I thought it was brilliant that you

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set up advanced theoretical physics

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project as opposed to UFO research I

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mean you just skirted right around the

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issue that that was Jesus you know what

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we were trying to do there I'll be quick

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for sure that was genius from the

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Freedom of Information Act

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come out uh-huh and I knew that if

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anybody under the act or anybody asked

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about UFO data we them support it I

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didn't think people would come up with

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let's ask about advanced theoretical

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physics hello it was a way to kind of ID

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what we were doing in fact as I

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mentioned the book after I had started

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the group and whatnot I kind of went to

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my bosses at the 3 & 4 star level and

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you know hey boss I don't want you to

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hear about this first from the

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Washington Post interestingly they were

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quite supportive well III think everyone

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senses that there's something out there

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and it's probably not at the top of

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everybody's priority list but it

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certainly is something to look into but

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you use you stated something I found

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very interesting when I resisted various

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movements and failed to get my way it

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was only later that the necessity for

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certain events to have occurred became

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apparent maybe it was synchronicity but

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the eventual functions and outcomes that

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led to the observations in this book

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were far too complex to have been

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planned or orchestrated by me while the

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emphasis here is on UFO studies there

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were interactions in many other realms

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of phenomena that remained totally

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intertwined with destiny I mean that's

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far from what I would have thought a

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military approach to the problem was you

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really very interesting well I think

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many people were vastly underestimate

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the the military per se many of you may

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know my good friend Jim Channon yes

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Egypt goat and his creation of the first

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Earth battalion of the things we did

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around that there were a lot of very

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bright innovative for people when it

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gets to UFOs remember the government is

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not monolithic nor as the military and

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we know that seven to ten percent of the

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adult population have actually seen a

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UFO

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so that number translates into the

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military as well so you've got many

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people have had personal experience that

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they're not willing to set aside but

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there is a difference between individual

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interest and institutional interest or

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responsibility right hmm well I have

273
00:13:57,660 --> 00:13:53,950
noticed dr. Alexander in my time being

274
00:13:59,370 --> 00:13:57,670
involved with the UFO groups that you

275
00:14:02,010 --> 00:13:59,380
know occasionally go to a meeting or

276
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:02,020
some kind of a seminar or whatever move

277
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:05,850
on and I am amazed by the number of

278
00:14:14,130 --> 00:14:10,480
former military people that populate the

279
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:14,140
interest groups so no they are you guys

280
00:14:20,130 --> 00:14:16,690
guys like George filer passat filer file

281
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:20,140
right good friend of ours yeah right so

282
00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:24,130
no there's as I said you know military's

283
00:14:30,210 --> 00:14:27,750
big institution you amortize this over

284
00:14:32,850 --> 00:14:30,220
some of those have been around over half

285
00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:32,860
a century and so that's a whole lot of

286
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:35,860
people and you get probably in the

287
00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:38,320
millions military people who have

288
00:14:46,350 --> 00:14:42,910
actually seen UFOs well it's that is

289
00:14:48,390 --> 00:14:46,360
that is true my point only being that it

290
00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:48,400
seemed like in the groups that I've gone

291
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:51,310
to including MUFON the military seems

292
00:14:57,570 --> 00:14:54,130
more represented than you would have in

293
00:14:59,760 --> 00:14:57,580
a general population so you know like

294
00:15:02,720 --> 00:14:59,770
every third guy that's in the room is

295
00:15:06,630 --> 00:15:02,730
former military I I have never

296
00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:06,640
experienced that with the MUFON and I

297
00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:09,310
think there's two problems that we're

298
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:13,270
going to get to hear one of the skeptics

299
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:16,240
and the bunkers who just will not accept

300
00:15:24,180 --> 00:15:20,410
anything even interesting you sometimes

301
00:15:26,460 --> 00:15:24,190
an apad experience but on the other side

302
00:15:29,730 --> 00:15:26,470
you have the true believers who just

303
00:15:32,580 --> 00:15:29,740
believe anything yes yeah even when the

304
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:32,590
monster blue balls yes yes what it is it

305
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:37,120
is a fine line to walk there between the

306
00:15:41,010 --> 00:15:40,450
two and I do think that some of the

307
00:15:43,770 --> 00:15:41,020
skeptic

308
00:15:47,010 --> 00:15:43,780
it's my contention that some of the

309
00:15:50,490 --> 00:15:47,020
skeptics are afraid of the possibility

310
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:50,500
because if they concede to such a thing

311
00:15:55,950 --> 00:15:52,720
being true then they have to concede to

312
00:15:58,350 --> 00:15:55,960
the idea of something being smarter than

313
00:16:00,480 --> 00:15:58,360
they are because I don't think it's so

314
00:16:03,450 --> 00:16:00,490
much smarter than they are but I think

315
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:03,460
absolutely you're right the issue in my

316
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:07,210
view there is that if they accept these

317
00:16:12,660 --> 00:16:09,370
things and we could look at a variety of

318
00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:12,670
phenomenon but if that's true then the

319
00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:15,670
whole materialistic paradigm collapses

320
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:18,550
their whole review is at stake and

321
00:16:23,610 --> 00:16:20,890
that's pretty scary yes yes loss of

322
00:16:25,260 --> 00:16:23,620
control in either case whether if

323
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:25,270
there's somebody out there smarter than

324
00:16:30,660 --> 00:16:27,610
them or that their whole paradigm

325
00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:30,670
collapses this the end result is the

326
00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:33,390
same the end result is loss of control

327
00:16:39,890 --> 00:16:36,340
just like in the Old West where there's

328
00:16:43,830 --> 00:16:39,900
always a faster gun there's always a

329
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:43,840
smarter gal or guy out there a lot of

330
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:46,330
like people well unfortunately and

331
00:16:50,580 --> 00:16:48,490
there's a world that I've called

332
00:16:53,370 --> 00:16:50,590
actually got published called cerebral

333
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:53,380
centrism which is sort of an American

334
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:55,210
disease where we think we're the only

335
00:16:59,790 --> 00:16:57,730
smart people in the world even though

336
00:17:04,020 --> 00:16:59,800
only four percent of the population of

337
00:17:06,270 --> 00:17:04,030
the entire planet yeah well they should

338
00:17:08,820 --> 00:17:06,280
just go to some of the engineering

339
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:08,830
schools and see that a lot of air a lot

340
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:10,690
of people who aren't Americans taking

341
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:12,490
the honours at the engineering schools

342
00:17:18,020 --> 00:17:15,250
in America and then they can work for

343
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:18,030
mine of this IIT or Indians to

344
00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:20,650
technology is probably the best in the

345
00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:24,190
world now I mean that they are doing

346
00:17:29,310 --> 00:17:26,230
here in delhi india just doing

347
00:17:32,610 --> 00:17:29,320
phenomenal do you think their space

348
00:17:36,210 --> 00:17:32,620
program is going to go anywhere well

349
00:17:38,550 --> 00:17:36,220
china we've seeded space to China I mean

350
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:38,560
that that's where it's going they use

351
00:17:47,010 --> 00:17:41,770
Russia a kind of as a research

352
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:47,020
laboratory to add but India is going to

353
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:49,690
catch up I think it's a matter of

354
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:52,240
resource but China has committed the

355
00:17:57,260 --> 00:17:54,650
resources to

356
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:57,270
that's a shame I I think you're probably

357
00:18:05,660 --> 00:18:00,960
right but it doesn't really where does

358
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:05,670
that leave this country behind yes the

359
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:09,570
word yeah well actually the direction

360
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:13,170
we're going to a large degree although

361
00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:15,450
there are government contracts but

362
00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:18,030
you're seeing you know the private space

363
00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:22,470
industry ketchup he had burt rutan I was

364
00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:26,460
frankly honored to be at the the ground

365
00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:28,830
zero when he put Mike mobile into space

366
00:18:34,850 --> 00:18:31,560
for the first time please civilian

367
00:18:38,420 --> 00:18:34,860
enterprise the guy that I watch here you

368
00:18:43,250 --> 00:18:38,430
mentioned the ranch big blow and Bigelow

369
00:18:46,550 --> 00:18:43,260
Aerospace is moving at warp speed Elon

370
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:46,560
Musk and SpaceX just doing tremendous

371
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:49,290
thing so we're expecting and eventually

372
00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:51,930
i think the civilian industry must take

373
00:18:57,860 --> 00:18:55,380
over now where they're really going out

374
00:19:04,100 --> 00:18:57,870
front and I don't know if China is going

375
00:19:07,580 --> 00:19:04,110
to be able to catch up but what Burt had

376
00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:07,590
done is basically attacking the business

377
00:19:14,050 --> 00:19:11,700
model when he put my cup I was also

378
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:14,060
there when he rolled out spaceship one

379
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:17,130
initially but he put that up he

380
00:19:21,140 --> 00:19:19,110
developed the White Knight to launch it

381
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:21,150
all the support mechanisms and did the

382
00:19:28,250 --> 00:19:24,930
whole thing for we estimate less than 25

383
00:19:31,070 --> 00:19:28,260
million dollars and as I argue a NASA

384
00:19:34,820 --> 00:19:31,080
couldn't have done the paperwork for 25

385
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:34,830
million yes he has a lot of a lot of red

386
00:19:38,930 --> 00:19:37,110
tape in dealing with the government's so

387
00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:38,940
you think the private enterprise would

388
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:41,700
possibly outpace a any sort of a

389
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,730
national program then I i agree with you

390
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:46,320
I think it would too because you know

391
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:48,930
people like to work for themselves sort

392
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:53,970
of and push a little bit harder I'm

393
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:57,690
sorry on a speakerphone oh no no we got

394
00:20:04,340 --> 00:20:00,960
we got those you were tailing off there

395
00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:04,350
a bit okay I was just basically i think

396
00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:07,049
that people like Elon Musk ins

397
00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:09,960
we'll have a better chance of really

398
00:20:17,210 --> 00:20:11,820
making the major breakthroughs as

399
00:20:20,029 --> 00:20:17,220
opposed to I think the national attempts

400
00:20:22,609 --> 00:20:20,039
are certainly much better funded but I

401
00:20:25,159 --> 00:20:22,619
think they're also more carefully

402
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:25,169
regulated and less open to innovation

403
00:20:31,369 --> 00:20:28,230
and I'm that I may be perfectly wrong in

404
00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:31,379
that I don't know it just and in its

405
00:20:38,749 --> 00:20:37,080
just sort of my impression um yeah I

406
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:38,759
think they're going to do whatever it

407
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:42,480
takes and you're going to see big

408
00:20:49,580 --> 00:20:44,730
advances one of the problems with

409
00:20:52,129 --> 00:20:49,590
regulations here in the US as well as

410
00:20:54,979 --> 00:20:52,139
internationally is nobody's really

411
00:20:57,739 --> 00:20:54,989
thought this stuff through so every time

412
00:20:59,479 --> 00:20:57,749
we get to the next advance they've got

413
00:21:04,659 --> 00:20:59,489
to say what the hell are we going to do

414
00:21:08,090 --> 00:21:04,669
with this and I I know that are

415
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:08,100
something called I tars which has to do

416
00:21:16,690 --> 00:21:12,210
with the exportation of various

417
00:21:18,830 --> 00:21:16,700
technology and it is just a nightmare to

418
00:21:21,229 --> 00:21:18,840
get through you know most of the

419
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:21,239
launches are not taking place on the US

420
00:21:28,940 --> 00:21:24,809
so if you ship something out the Rockets

421
00:21:32,509 --> 00:21:28,950
are you know under international or the

422
00:21:39,529 --> 00:21:32,519
US export laws which are absolutely

423
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:39,539
draconian well I you know to change

424
00:21:44,869 --> 00:21:41,970
gears just a little bit um it's been

425
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:44,879
about 40 years since we've been on the

426
00:21:51,859 --> 00:21:48,480
moon and not myself obviously except in

427
00:21:53,479 --> 00:21:51,869
my remote viewing but it's been a long

428
00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:53,489
time since we've been on the moon and

429
00:21:58,700 --> 00:21:55,769
China sent up the little Jade rabbit and

430
00:22:02,950 --> 00:21:58,710
it broke down so in in some sense we

431
00:22:06,919 --> 00:22:02,960
haven't we haven't really pushed further

432
00:22:10,099 --> 00:22:06,929
then we are on but you know if you get

433
00:22:13,789 --> 00:22:10,109
back to the economics of that at the

434
00:22:17,739 --> 00:22:13,799
time the Apollo program was running NASA

435
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:17,749
had four percent of the national budget

436
00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:20,730
right now there at about zero

437
00:22:28,090 --> 00:22:23,780
point four percent yes so we're talking

438
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:28,100
literally a order of magnitude more

439
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:31,049
money and we're just not prepared at

440
00:22:35,530 --> 00:22:33,510
this time I don't think to win it when

441
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:35,540
we talk about going to Mars and

442
00:22:43,630 --> 00:22:39,360
potentially be on and we do send crapped

443
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:43,640
out periodically but basically we seeded

444
00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:47,280
heavy-lift we're coming back in that

445
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:51,720
area but let the former Soviet Union the

446
00:22:57,919 --> 00:22:55,290
Russians take over that field you know

447
00:23:02,120 --> 00:22:57,929
we've had people going up to the ISS and

448
00:23:05,690 --> 00:23:02,130
what individuals who can afford millions

449
00:23:08,210 --> 00:23:05,700
to do it but the Russians basically

450
00:23:10,940 --> 00:23:08,220
quadruple the price of what they were

451
00:23:13,970 --> 00:23:10,950
going to charge people to do various

452
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:13,980
things so sometimes became a club for

453
00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:16,650
only the ultra-wealthy some people argue

454
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:19,320
that this international space station

455
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:22,049
isn't literally outer space I know it's

456
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:25,650
you know it is space but it's it's like

457
00:23:31,930 --> 00:23:29,250
within a certain is it within the Van

458
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:31,940
Allen belt it's in geosynchronous orbit

459
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:37,610
or it is orbiting the US or the world

460
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:40,890
it's high up there now there's huge

461
00:23:49,570 --> 00:23:43,919
controversy on the effects of radiation

462
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:49,580
on people and we're learning a lot and

463
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:53,520
those are there are huge questions about

464
00:23:58,370 --> 00:23:55,710
doing deep space explorations with

465
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:58,380
humans name was not we can physically

466
00:24:06,380 --> 00:24:01,679
withstand it and particularly radiation

467
00:24:08,810 --> 00:24:06,390
as well as you know bone and muscle

468
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:08,820
deterioration and a whole host of

469
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:12,570
physical issue I have a friend who's one

470
00:24:17,659 --> 00:24:15,210
of NASA's chief scientist who just says

471
00:24:19,220 --> 00:24:17,669
we shouldn't go out there we you know

472
00:24:22,190 --> 00:24:19,230
will not be able to live in that

473
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:22,200
environment which which brings me to the

474
00:24:27,409 --> 00:24:24,720
the question which is really theoretical

475
00:24:30,289 --> 00:24:27,419
also are the the so-called Grey's

476
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,299
actually robotic you know

477
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:32,880
self-replicating characters from some

478
00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:34,050
other

479
00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:40,470
know there's been two talk that I hear

480
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:44,160
the stories I have no idea i get back

481
00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:47,850
there to say we're not asking the right

482
00:24:53,150 --> 00:24:50,100
question or are we even ready to

483
00:24:59,950 --> 00:24:53,160
probably not you know that there is a

484
00:25:03,590 --> 00:24:59,960
host of anecdotal discussions in

485
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:03,600
internet is obviously ripe with them as

486
00:25:08,780 --> 00:25:06,240
to who and what they are on various

487
00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:08,790
types you know there n is another

488
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:13,260
question that I've raised it these UFO

489
00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:16,050
conferences if you're going to talk

490
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:19,590
about abductions and then can ensure

491
00:25:24,860 --> 00:25:21,720
that some sorts of interactions take

492
00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:24,870
place but then you start looking at the

493
00:25:33,410 --> 00:25:29,790
variety of alien interactions alone and

494
00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:33,420
you go what a we are you know the cosmic

495
00:25:42,740 --> 00:25:39,240
bucket list of places to visitors well

496
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:42,750
if these if these beings are even from

497
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:45,530
space or if they're on a parallel

498
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:47,640
dimensional plane for lack of a better

499
00:25:56,030 --> 00:25:53,610
word you decided at some point it not so

500
00:26:01,310 --> 00:25:56,040
long ago is certainly not in your 20s

501
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:01,320
you decided to get a PhD in death

502
00:26:06,490 --> 00:26:03,450
studies and near-death studies with

503
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:06,500
Elisabeth kubler-ross am I not correct

504
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:11,010
um yeah well i was working obviously had

505
00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:14,130
my masters in education and was working

506
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:16,620
and i was very fortunate that was a

507
00:26:22,130 --> 00:26:18,960
serendipitous event that Elizabeth

508
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:22,140
became the head of my committee but it

509
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:25,610
did cause kind of an abrupt shift in

510
00:26:32,060 --> 00:26:27,810
direction particularly for my

511
00:26:34,580 --> 00:26:32,070
dissertation so so I what drew you to

512
00:26:36,380 --> 00:26:34,590
that because that sounds like I I don't

513
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:36,390
think it's a complete change of

514
00:26:40,730 --> 00:26:38,880
direction because you know I'm a person

515
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:40,740
who never feels alone in a room even if

516
00:26:46,340 --> 00:26:44,370
I'm the only human in it so I I you know

517
00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:46,350
kind of get people's interest in

518
00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:47,460
consciousness

519
00:26:53,389 --> 00:26:50,820
and but it does seem probably to a lot

520
00:26:58,130 --> 00:26:53,399
of people like a big change in direction

521
00:27:00,529 --> 00:26:58,140
for you so what brought you to that well

522
00:27:02,899 --> 00:27:00,539
part of this is just the academic

523
00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:02,909
process that the things you have to do

524
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:05,580
to get a doctrine including a lot of

525
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:08,850
studies in various areas there was

526
00:27:13,779 --> 00:27:11,039
nothing in that specific field and was

527
00:27:18,820 --> 00:27:13,789
working in behavioral science I have

528
00:27:24,649 --> 00:27:22,600
positions before we had something called

529
00:27:27,710 --> 00:27:24,659
organizational effectiveness we had a

530
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,720
lot of behavioral science there have

531
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:29,520
also been the various you know

532
00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:32,850
psychological courses human relations

533
00:27:38,510 --> 00:27:34,919
courses accessories such as I was

534
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:38,520
putting the package together and then I

535
00:27:45,529 --> 00:27:40,880
was always interested in near-death

536
00:27:50,350 --> 00:27:45,539
experiences even before the term was

537
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:50,360
coined and then I attended a workshop

538
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:53,130
with Elizabeth called life death of

539
00:27:59,149 --> 00:27:57,049
transition and that was pretty profound

540
00:28:02,990 --> 00:27:59,159
particularly with the kinds of people

541
00:28:06,380 --> 00:28:03,000
who were there including maybe a quarter

542
00:28:10,010 --> 00:28:06,390
of the people attending were actually

543
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:10,020
dying oh and you really you know this

544
00:28:15,529 --> 00:28:12,720
got a very intense focus of course and

545
00:28:17,450 --> 00:28:15,539
you started hearing more and more of

546
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:17,460
these stories and then she and raymond

547
00:28:22,990 --> 00:28:19,770
moody okay my own raymond of course

548
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:23,000
wrote the book life after life which

549
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:26,250
sort of introduced the world to it and

550
00:28:35,810 --> 00:28:31,890
it has expanded agent mission when i got

551
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:35,820
my doctorate i did end up eventually is

552
00:28:39,889 --> 00:28:37,710
the president of the international

553
00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:39,899
association for near-death studies my

554
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:44,070
hands yes yeah and obviously there you

555
00:28:49,940 --> 00:28:46,049
end up you know that was the primary

556
00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:49,950
focus of that organization and you

557
00:28:56,750 --> 00:28:51,720
yourself have never had a near-death

558
00:28:59,690 --> 00:28:56,760
experience I'm taking it I like to say

559
00:29:01,250 --> 00:28:59,700
that I sort of seemed to be a catalyst

560
00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:01,260
strange things

561
00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:05,880
around me as opposed to me my brother

562
00:29:12,050 --> 00:29:08,580
say you know that I study the things

563
00:29:15,410 --> 00:29:12,060
that happen for them because the brother

564
00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:15,420
has had a couple of Indies that sounds a

565
00:29:20,330 --> 00:29:17,790
lot like I think your friend and mine

566
00:29:25,550 --> 00:29:20,340
Russell Targ he seems to also be that

567
00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:25,560
sort of catalyst right yep and also you

568
00:29:30,620 --> 00:29:28,230
keep coming back to synchronicity and

569
00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:30,630
how some force that you call destiny

570
00:29:36,530 --> 00:29:32,580
seems to push you into these things you

571
00:29:38,690 --> 00:29:36,540
seem to be almost a person who is

572
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:38,700
capable of following the path and so the

573
00:29:43,180 --> 00:29:40,650
past was cleared for you I mean you have

574
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:43,190
had just an incredible life was oh

575
00:29:48,260 --> 00:29:45,210
that's what you have to do is just

576
00:29:50,690 --> 00:29:48,270
surrender and go with it and one of the

577
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:50,700
things I pointed out in the book that

578
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:54,210
you know if you you're pushing really

579
00:29:59,840 --> 00:29:58,050
hard and not getting results probably

580
00:30:03,980 --> 00:29:59,850
there's something else in the offing

581
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:03,990
that comes along yeah it seems that way

582
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:06,960
in life it does I always believe in in

583
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:09,360
making an intention and then letting the

584
00:30:17,980 --> 00:30:12,720
intention go right well the letting go

585
00:30:21,710 --> 00:30:17,990
part really is quite quite important a

586
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:21,720
lot of folks don't realize that that you

587
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:23,730
know is this if we doesn't work we'll

588
00:30:31,070 --> 00:30:27,510
just keep trying harder so now not all

589
00:30:34,370 --> 00:30:31,080
us yeah I have to let let let it happen

590
00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:34,380
for you with the intention I I do i do

591
00:30:38,570 --> 00:30:36,390
create a visualization with some of my

592
00:30:41,090 --> 00:30:38,580
clients and and that is something that

593
00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:41,100
you really have to talk to people about

594
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:44,580
letting go of their not giving up on

595
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:46,410
their dream but letting it go just

596
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:48,690
letting the forces that you put in

597
00:30:53,630 --> 00:30:50,250
motion with the creative visualization

598
00:30:56,290 --> 00:30:53,640
let them do their job just let it fly

599
00:30:59,480 --> 00:30:56,300
let it go up to the sky you know and

600
00:31:03,020 --> 00:30:59,490
cute anecdote I don't know if you

601
00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:03,030
remember Cleve Baxter yes primary

602
00:31:07,610 --> 00:31:04,950
perception is one of the talking to

603
00:31:10,910 --> 00:31:07,620
plants yeah all of that I had worked

604
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:10,920
with clay and national academy of

605
00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:13,710
sciences was doing a study on weirdness

606
00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:14,260
and

607
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:18,070
I was involved long story short we were

608
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:22,720
looking at white cells and they were at

609
00:31:28,050 --> 00:31:26,050
the laboratory in San Diego and we had

610
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:28,060
asked a couple of them to donate cells

611
00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:32,080
and the scientist is looking at where

612
00:31:37,170 --> 00:31:35,140
him in the conference and he and he goes

613
00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:37,180
and all of a sudden you see this big

614
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:40,480
spike occur they go see it doesn't work

615
00:31:48,660 --> 00:31:45,130
as soon as I stopped you know we got a

616
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:48,670
predictor that it's hard to explain to

617
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:53,440
them that's pretty funny that's that's

618
00:31:58,770 --> 00:31:56,050
good and the other thing that you seemed

619
00:32:02,250 --> 00:31:58,780
to be have gotten interested in recently

620
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:02,260
was interspecies communication and we're

621
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:04,390
all animal lovers here so late oh hell

622
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:06,970
yeah I mean I certainly talked to my dog

623
00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:08,890
he doesn't answer a lot of my cats talk

624
00:32:17,420 --> 00:32:11,950
to me not not not verbally but I don't

625
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:17,430
we this is a much bigger animals and

626
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:21,010
this talk was given to the Society for

627
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:24,970
scientific exploration a member of for

628
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:28,570
about three decades and probably the top

629
00:32:33,510 --> 00:32:31,210
scientific organization looking at

630
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:33,520
phenomena head and shoulders above most

631
00:32:39,330 --> 00:32:37,570
of the ones that are out there but ya

632
00:32:42,030 --> 00:32:39,340
know I was looking at the work we had

633
00:32:44,340 --> 00:32:42,040
done with dolphins both in captivity and

634
00:32:49,170 --> 00:32:44,350
more importantly in the wild and then

635
00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:49,180
last year we were in Tonga which is in

636
00:32:54,690 --> 00:32:52,540
the South Pacific a little tiny dot out

637
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:54,700
there but it's one of two places in the

638
00:33:01,050 --> 00:32:57,610
world that you can actually get in the

639
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:01,060
water with humpback whales Wow and it

640
00:33:09,330 --> 00:33:05,770
got up close and very personal I mean

641
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:09,340
we're talking ranges of inches at times

642
00:33:16,110 --> 00:33:13,690
and they seem to know exactly where we

643
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:16,120
were and the interactions were just

644
00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:19,120
absolutely amazing that must have been

645
00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:21,910
an incredible experience I had swum with

646
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:24,190
the dolphins in the Caribbean and with

647
00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:28,290
wild dolphins when it was legal and

648
00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:31,140
it was really an experience to be you

649
00:33:37,370 --> 00:33:33,750
know to be vibed by them they use their

650
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:37,380
sonar I guess on you and you it's like a

651
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:39,450
feeling that's not describable in

652
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:41,670
English words by me let's put it that

653
00:33:48,410 --> 00:33:45,510
way but now we have them come in down

654
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,420
their ranges where they would wonder Sam

655
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:50,640
long people don't realize how big

656
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:53,250
dolphins are but many of them are eight

657
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:56,730
eight hundred to a thousand pounds nine

658
00:34:02,720 --> 00:33:59,760
ten feet eleven feet long they would

659
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:02,730
come in have again they would come right

660
00:34:09,290 --> 00:34:06,090
by you within sometimes within an inch

661
00:34:11,870 --> 00:34:09,300
or two yes and again knew exactly where

662
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:11,880
you were and we had certain protocols in

663
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:13,770
place so you didn't touch them because

664
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:16,320
they are susceptible to human diseases

665
00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:20,130
and things patron yeah certainly quite

666
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:22,470
an experience and you you know of the

667
00:34:29,860 --> 00:34:24,510
dolphin energy group at the monroe

668
00:34:34,190 --> 00:34:29,870
institute i'm taking it I didn't know

669
00:34:36,770 --> 00:34:34,200
they always doing that went out gego

670
00:34:40,850 --> 00:34:36,780
mcmonagle and January and stop by

671
00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:40,860
scooter his wife is now running yes yes

672
00:34:45,770 --> 00:34:43,980
I'm a member so yeah but know that for

673
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:45,780
years they've had and it's not a direct

674
00:34:50,030 --> 00:34:48,240
directly involved with dolphins in the

675
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:50,040
sense that they don't swim with the

676
00:34:57,170 --> 00:34:52,890
dolphins nor do they you know touch them

677
00:35:01,070 --> 00:34:57,180
in any way but they have a sort of

678
00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:01,080
mental communication for healing humans

679
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:04,950
with dolphins that goes on in in the lab

680
00:35:10,970 --> 00:35:07,770
there and I guess surely bliley over

681
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:10,980
there had started it when robert

682
00:35:16,850 --> 00:35:13,680
monroe's wife got sick and it's been

683
00:35:19,130 --> 00:35:16,860
going ever since with healing you know

684
00:35:23,150 --> 00:35:19,140
you can request a healing and the group

685
00:35:27,790 --> 00:35:23,160
the dolphin energy group will attempt to

686
00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:27,800
contact their dolphins psychically or

687
00:35:34,940 --> 00:35:31,800
you would say telepathically and and ask

688
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:34,950
for healing on whatever is wrong with

689
00:35:40,970 --> 00:35:37,440
the person in question I just throw that

690
00:35:42,099 --> 00:35:40,980
out there so or a host of various

691
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:42,109
alternative

692
00:35:49,799 --> 00:35:45,410
old techniques I knew Nancy and of

693
00:35:53,410 --> 00:35:49,809
course Bob was a good friend of mine so

694
00:35:56,499 --> 00:35:53,420
yeah he did some free pretty

695
00:36:00,519 --> 00:35:56,509
unremarkable stuff that public is not

696
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:00,529
yet aware of as well by the way I might

697
00:36:06,009 --> 00:36:03,650
transition this a bit but I think

698
00:36:08,109 --> 00:36:06,019
directly related you mentioned the work

699
00:36:11,289 --> 00:36:08,119
with shaman one of the things I point

700
00:36:15,339 --> 00:36:11,299
out is that and you had asked talked

701
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:15,349
about the issue of consciousness and you

702
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:18,079
know being basically spiritual beings

703
00:36:25,509 --> 00:36:22,160
from the human existence as opposed to

704
00:36:30,970 --> 00:36:25,519
the materialistic world right and the

705
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:30,980
point is this is really a Western view

706
00:36:36,970 --> 00:36:34,130
of the world there are other cultures in

707
00:36:39,849 --> 00:36:36,980
the world idol of work in Brazil you may

708
00:36:41,950 --> 00:36:39,859
know John of God forums yes yes but I

709
00:36:44,650 --> 00:36:41,960
have many friends down there and the

710
00:36:47,470 --> 00:36:44,660
point is the source of spiritual

711
00:36:50,819 --> 00:36:47,480
interventions are totally accepted even

712
00:36:54,910 --> 00:36:50,829
with the well-educated intelligentsia

713
00:36:59,229 --> 00:36:54,920
whereas here we treat these phenomena as

714
00:37:01,390 --> 00:36:59,239
if they're weird and because and explain

715
00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:01,400
it we're all considered meat puppets

716
00:37:05,499 --> 00:37:03,470
with a chemical consciousness is just a

717
00:37:08,140 --> 00:37:05,509
chemical problem in the brain that it's

718
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:08,150
accidental chemical consciousness rather

719
00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:10,730
than the brain being a sort of

720
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:12,710
transceiver for consciousness while

721
00:37:22,059 --> 00:37:19,609
we're a greater being okay you have to

722
00:37:25,059 --> 00:37:22,069
forgive me i miss do we do not disagree

723
00:37:26,769 --> 00:37:25,069
okay good okay oh the other thing too is

724
00:37:31,089 --> 00:37:26,779
when you talk about interspecies

725
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:31,099
communication what is your view of is

726
00:37:35,470 --> 00:37:33,650
there I mean myself I can't believe that

727
00:37:36,940 --> 00:37:35,480
there were not other sentient being

728
00:37:40,839 --> 00:37:36,950
somewhere in the universe and that

729
00:37:43,029 --> 00:37:40,849
eventually given certainly enough time

730
00:37:45,999 --> 00:37:43,039
we could figure out to come in contact

731
00:37:48,249 --> 00:37:46,009
with them certainly that type of

732
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:48,259
communication would be quite difficult I

733
00:37:54,729 --> 00:37:50,690
think well I'm not sure if they'd be

734
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:54,739
difficult or not you know one approach

735
00:37:58,450 --> 00:37:55,760
to this

736
00:38:01,150 --> 00:37:58,460
is obviously there must be sent in life

737
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:01,160
somewhere in the universe at this time

738
00:38:06,790 --> 00:38:04,130
and that's just based on pure numbers

739
00:38:10,270 --> 00:38:06,800
LLL drink Tessa we're finding out there

740
00:38:12,540 --> 00:38:10,280
and allowing for evolution so from a

741
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:12,550
straight materialistic view you can

742
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:15,650
suggest that and we mentioned earlier

743
00:38:23,530 --> 00:38:19,370
about the interactions between humans

744
00:38:25,870 --> 00:38:23,540
and Cynthia nonhumans but you know there

745
00:38:28,570 --> 00:38:25,880
there's another aspect to this and that

746
00:38:31,740 --> 00:38:28,580
is you consider white mice or answer or

747
00:38:35,020 --> 00:38:31,750
you know host of things that we

748
00:38:38,130 --> 00:38:35,030
experiment on scientifically and there's

749
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:38,140
absolutely no attempt whatsoever to

750
00:38:45,130 --> 00:38:42,320
interact you know with them or you know

751
00:38:48,070 --> 00:38:45,140
ask them what's going on or what they

752
00:38:52,020 --> 00:38:48,080
think about the experiment um hilfe some

753
00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:52,030
hypothesize that if you have sent him a

754
00:38:59,410 --> 00:38:54,950
consciousness that's sufficiently

755
00:39:01,180 --> 00:38:59,420
evolved we may be the white mice well

756
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:01,190
that's true that's a little scary but

757
00:39:08,860 --> 00:39:05,210
probably true um you know going back to

758
00:39:11,350 --> 00:39:08,870
a couple of things I would throw like

759
00:39:16,410 --> 00:39:11,360
slightly harder a hard a little more

760
00:39:19,060 --> 00:39:16,420
hardball here you in your book you

761
00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:19,070
ascertained that it didn't seem as

762
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:21,830
though people in the upper echelon of

763
00:39:27,730 --> 00:39:25,760
the military really knew the answers

764
00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:27,740
about UFOs and they weren't holding

765
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:31,880
things back and that basically and I

766
00:39:37,630 --> 00:39:34,250
agree with you that that there has

767
00:39:41,710 --> 00:39:37,640
already been disclosure on some level

768
00:39:46,570 --> 00:39:41,720
but I point to the things that go on at

769
00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:46,580
JPL in terms of some of the photographs

770
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:49,310
of Mars where there are people who I

771
00:39:57,420 --> 00:39:54,110
think white quite accurately looked at

772
00:40:02,200 --> 00:39:57,430
some of the photographs and saw some

773
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:02,210
like what looked a great deal like

774
00:40:08,990 --> 00:40:07,970
fossils in in in on the earth and then

775
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:09,000
they were prompt

776
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:11,970
ground up it's sort of like yeah I want

777
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:14,610
to see what that tree is about and so

778
00:40:19,790 --> 00:40:17,910
I'll cut down the trail anything that's

779
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:19,800
wait could I do something I think I know

780
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:23,310
about okay go see how you probably want

781
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:27,210
to talk to is richard hoover uber is a

782
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:30,960
guy who spent you know an entire career

783
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:36,000
at NASA and actually says that we

784
00:40:44,140 --> 00:40:39,570
actually we do have evidence of alien

785
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:44,150
life he was involved with picking up the

786
00:40:49,370 --> 00:40:47,850
meteorites in Antarctica and they like

787
00:40:52,190 --> 00:40:49,380
that area because it's relatively

788
00:40:55,970 --> 00:40:52,200
pristine and will argue that we have in

789
00:41:00,290 --> 00:40:55,980
fact found life but he takes them to

790
00:41:02,270 --> 00:41:00,300
task for exactly that reason said they

791
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:02,280
had they were doing with the rover

792
00:41:09,350 --> 00:41:06,480
experiments cutting up rocks there and

793
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:09,360
he said he saw evidence again but we're

794
00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:12,240
talking understanding unicellular life

795
00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:15,660
but fossils that can be seen and they

796
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:18,420
did in fact write them up yes I'll in my

797
00:41:25,370 --> 00:41:22,770
view you know NASA is just scared to

798
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:25,380
death of these topics I mean they are

799
00:41:35,180 --> 00:41:31,290
overtly hostile to UFOs kind of in

800
00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:35,190
general you do find Mavericks guys like

801
00:41:44,330 --> 00:41:40,710
the store story Musgrave um says hey we

802
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:44,340
will you know I'm certainly open to the

803
00:41:51,590 --> 00:41:47,250
topic he speaks at UFO conference yes um

804
00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:51,600
but says he never saw anything about

805
00:41:58,340 --> 00:41:54,960
that it's also interesting ed Mitchell

806
00:42:02,810 --> 00:41:58,350
is a friend of mine yes great time great

807
00:42:06,350 --> 00:42:02,820
guy sure deal he was Apollo 14 and who

808
00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:06,360
firmly believes that a the you know

809
00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:10,020
we've been contacted and these

810
00:42:17,180 --> 00:42:13,110
interactions go on but equally says and

811
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:17,190
absolutely nothing that of his beliefs

812
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:20,010
on this comes from NASA

813
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:22,290
oh very difficult when you have an

814
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:25,410
organization that you would think ought

815
00:42:31,340 --> 00:42:28,710
to be you know interested and there are

816
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:31,350
there are individuals certainly again

817
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:34,020
and are interested but institutionally

818
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:37,170
just overtly hostels of the topic isn't

819
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:40,770
there also a kind of like a competition

820
00:42:47,150 --> 00:42:44,130
between NASA and JPL in the sense of the

821
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:47,160
manned space flight from NASA versus the

822
00:42:52,990 --> 00:42:49,650
robotic space flight from JPL it's

823
00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:53,000
that's not how I feels a contractor okay

824
00:42:57,980 --> 00:42:55,740
because I've heard that the JPL doesn't

825
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:57,990
want to hear anything about man in space

826
00:43:03,650 --> 00:43:00,720
they want to send their their stuff in

827
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:03,660
case there are person as i mentioned

828
00:43:10,190 --> 00:43:05,850
earlier for some pretty good reasons to

829
00:43:14,060 --> 00:43:10,200
ask about whether or not men can survive

830
00:43:20,180 --> 00:43:14,070
in space and these are real very real

831
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:20,190
concerns and you know also it's kind of

832
00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:23,280
like the whole drone issue that you have

833
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:26,190
now I mention they had given a talk down

834
00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:30,240
at era university Maxwell Air Force Base

835
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,390
and got booed when I was telling them we

836
00:43:38,770 --> 00:43:35,760
need to get pilots out of planes because

837
00:43:41,540 --> 00:43:38,780
you pay or horrendous price yes for all

838
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:41,550
of the life-support systems that go

839
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:43,770
along with that as well as redundancy

840
00:43:50,060 --> 00:43:47,520
and women whereas with robotics there's

841
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:50,070
a lot you can do at a much more cost

842
00:43:56,660 --> 00:43:54,480
effective manner mm-hmm but don't you

843
00:43:59,660 --> 00:43:56,670
feel that even in space exploration

844
00:44:03,020 --> 00:43:59,670
there has to be some sort of just

845
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:03,030
eyeball contact to me and I think to

846
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:06,240
most of the general population there's a

847
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:08,310
difference between a robot seeing

848
00:44:12,830 --> 00:44:10,710
something on Mars and a fellow human

849
00:44:17,420 --> 00:44:12,840
being seeing something I'm where that's

850
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:17,430
got a human inquisitiveness yeah and but

851
00:44:24,770 --> 00:44:20,880
again the issue I think the fundamental

852
00:44:27,380 --> 00:44:24,780
issue here is cost effectiveness what it

853
00:44:32,090 --> 00:44:27,390
costs you to do that and we talk now

854
00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:32,100
about Mars missions and you know we

855
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:34,380
don't do a lot of things or

856
00:44:39,850 --> 00:44:37,770
oberle suicidal so when you start

857
00:44:43,070 --> 00:44:39,860
talking about deep space exploration

858
00:44:45,470 --> 00:44:43,080
many of them are obviously one-way trips

859
00:44:48,620 --> 00:44:45,480
he got individuals who were saying you

860
00:44:53,180 --> 00:44:48,630
know send me not me willing to do that

861
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,190
just for the excitement of it but heart

862
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:55,680
issues and again I think you really get

863
00:45:01,520 --> 00:44:58,290
back to just the cost-effectiveness a

864
00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:01,530
lot cheaper to send out robotic probes

865
00:45:08,060 --> 00:45:04,980
than to send manned flight and I'm not

866
00:45:12,110 --> 00:45:08,070
set I'm not signing up for a buzz aldrin

867
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:12,120
saw you know in a more sense to the

868
00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:14,490
other issue the things we talked about

869
00:45:20,660 --> 00:45:17,880
marriage you mentioned that says you

870
00:45:23,740 --> 00:45:20,670
know maybe we don't need to send widgets

871
00:45:26,570 --> 00:45:23,750
out there when you have a consciousness

872
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:26,580
application absolutely absolutely I

873
00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:28,410
would agree a hundred percent with that

874
00:45:34,250 --> 00:45:30,660
can you can you tell us a little bit

875
00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:34,260
about your experiences at the skinwalker

876
00:45:42,010 --> 00:45:38,700
Bigelow sherman ranch well my

877
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:42,020
experiences would be pretty boring uh I

878
00:45:48,350 --> 00:45:44,730
know if you saw the program with Jesse

879
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:48,360
Ventura when he yes trap me on that just

880
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:51,690
pure nonsense but you know and he asked

881
00:45:57,710 --> 00:45:54,450
could he go up there so but you can but

882
00:46:04,670 --> 00:45:57,720
you'd be really bored there were a

883
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:04,680
number of very very unusual incidents

884
00:46:11,390 --> 00:46:08,610
that happen but when you amortize this

885
00:46:14,660 --> 00:46:11,400
so we're about six years the

886
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:14,670
observations went on it turns out

887
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:18,480
they're really quite rare and some of

888
00:46:23,660 --> 00:46:20,880
them seem to be centered around one

889
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:23,670
individual seems to be kind of more

890
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:25,650
sensitive I don't think there's any

891
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:29,040
doubt that very very strange things

892
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:32,400
happened there in the hole you need the

893
00:46:38,660 --> 00:46:36,450
bases myself I frankly didn't see

894
00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:38,670
anything and spent hours and hours

895
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:44,550
looking others at other times did some

896
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:46,160
of the stuff we had the ranch

897
00:46:53,780 --> 00:46:48,090
instrumented

898
00:46:58,370 --> 00:46:53,790
um they were doing some case climb lap

899
00:47:01,160 --> 00:46:58,380
photography at 24 7 and had some unusual

900
00:47:04,460 --> 00:47:01,170
things happen on camera and some things

901
00:47:08,270 --> 00:47:04,470
that should have been on camera that

902
00:47:11,410 --> 00:47:08,280
never showed up and this is what led to

903
00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:11,420
and place in the book where I talk about

904
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:15,540
precognitive sentient phenomena and this

905
00:47:22,670 --> 00:47:19,440
is sort of like the trickster it seemed

906
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:22,680
like there was a superior consciousness

907
00:47:28,780 --> 00:47:26,400
that was involved that was creating the

908
00:47:33,070 --> 00:47:28,790
incidents when I say it's precognitive

909
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:33,080
get seemed to know how we would respond

910
00:47:40,610 --> 00:47:37,410
to a set of circumstances before it was

911
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:40,620
even presented and then it kept morphing

912
00:47:47,980 --> 00:47:45,390
of the actions who whatever happened it

913
00:47:51,380 --> 00:47:47,990
you did not generally get the same

914
00:47:54,290 --> 00:47:51,390
experience twice so you would set up to

915
00:47:56,990 --> 00:47:54,300
try and study an incident that happened

916
00:47:59,810 --> 00:47:57,000
and then either it be off camera or you

917
00:48:04,910 --> 00:47:59,820
get something totally different but that

918
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:04,920
they occurred absolutely happened Wow if

919
00:48:12,050 --> 00:48:06,690
anybody's interested I'd recommend the

920
00:48:16,070 --> 00:48:12,060
book by George Knapp calm kelleher yeah

921
00:48:18,110 --> 00:48:16,080
oh yeah I call him column was the deputy

922
00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:18,120
administrator and probably spent more

923
00:48:24,860 --> 00:48:20,940
time up there than anybody else but they

924
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:24,870
outline I put a few of them in the UFO

925
00:48:30,410 --> 00:48:27,210
book but you know their whole book is

926
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:30,420
devoted to that yes pretty accurate the

927
00:48:35,180 --> 00:48:32,880
best of my knowledge yes if that was

928
00:48:39,620 --> 00:48:35,190
accurate that is one scary place well

929
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:39,630
all those those wolves that were larger

930
00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:41,490
than normal and was sort of

931
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:44,430
metamorphosize doubt of and I think a

932
00:48:49,370 --> 00:48:47,130
man like mr. Sodor you know that the

933
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:49,380
grease spot remember week when you

934
00:48:56,750 --> 00:48:53,760
spread them out over years yeah not that

935
00:48:59,210 --> 00:48:56,760
scary well if it happened while I house

936
00:49:02,060 --> 00:48:59,220
I'd be so nervous a lot more you know

937
00:49:06,940 --> 00:49:02,070
people said maybe I just require

938
00:49:09,230 --> 00:49:06,950
right because I tend not to be i

939
00:49:13,490 --> 00:49:09,240
attended me the guy uses let me go look

940
00:49:15,970 --> 00:49:13,500
at that yeah well yeah not any place so

941
00:49:19,370 --> 00:49:15,980
going bed and breakfast ting any times

942
00:49:21,140 --> 00:49:19,380
yeah but the other thing that you might

943
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,150
find interesting when you would talk

944
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:23,760
about this is that they recently came

945
00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:28,290
out they were studying how life had

946
00:49:32,210 --> 00:49:30,180
evolved in any way and then they were

947
00:49:34,730 --> 00:49:32,220
talking about RNA world and then they

948
00:49:37,370 --> 00:49:34,740
discovered that perhaps trna could have

949
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:37,380
evolved given you know proteins and

950
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:38,880
substrates and blah blah blah and all

951
00:49:44,330 --> 00:49:41,610
this stuff but the one research you made

952
00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:44,340
an interesting comment he said that you

953
00:49:49,460 --> 00:49:46,110
know it seems to me the only way to

954
00:49:51,740 --> 00:49:49,470
create RNA would be human involvement in

955
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:51,750
other words he felt it obviously in the

956
00:49:56,150 --> 00:49:54,090
lab they can create RNA at this point

957
00:49:57,980 --> 00:49:56,160
but i thought wow wouldn't it be

958
00:49:59,960 --> 00:49:57,990
interesting as if the whole point of

959
00:50:02,870 --> 00:49:59,970
evolution was to go back in time and

960
00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:02,880
then you know time being the illusion

961
00:50:07,010 --> 00:50:05,220
create tRNA and then everything else

962
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:07,020
would come from that so that life would

963
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:09,450
be as a lot of these people say just a

964
00:50:15,020 --> 00:50:12,570
circular path and i just thought that

965
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:15,030
was so fascinating that a guy studying

966
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:17,460
you know just molecular physics in a

967
00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:19,680
sense would come out and feel that you

968
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:22,380
involvement or perhaps not human

969
00:50:28,940 --> 00:50:25,440
involvement but uh yeah but theological

970
00:50:31,490 --> 00:50:28,950
issues can be interesting mind traffic

971
00:50:34,610 --> 00:50:31,500
oh definitely but i thought it was an

972
00:50:38,420 --> 00:50:34,620
interesting of certainly worth good

973
00:50:39,980 --> 00:50:38,430
lankan yeah creeper station yeah well

974
00:50:43,010 --> 00:50:39,990
coming from that man i thought it was

975
00:50:45,590 --> 00:50:43,020
interesting you know but i was just that

976
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:45,600
passing to life and we really i guess we

977
00:50:50,450 --> 00:50:47,970
were getting a little bit short on time

978
00:50:53,090 --> 00:50:50,460
now but um we didn't really get into

979
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:53,100
much about your experiences with the

980
00:50:59,450 --> 00:50:56,730
non-lethal weapons Oh which i have to go

981
00:51:01,520 --> 00:50:59,460
back and ask this question from my

982
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:01,530
daughter because she and i were

983
00:51:07,340 --> 00:51:05,610
captivated by the feminizing spray which

984
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:07,350
we thought was the answer to all the

985
00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:09,570
world's problems some time ago when we

986
00:51:14,609 --> 00:51:11,760
first read about it so whatever happened

987
00:51:20,489 --> 00:51:16,920
I don't even know how to adjust that

988
00:51:23,309 --> 00:51:20,499
bucket well I'll tell you one from an

989
00:51:26,579 --> 00:51:23,319
old joke it's a news continuously what

990
00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:26,589
I'm not sure what's the question oh well

991
00:51:33,539 --> 00:51:31,089
is is I'm sorry yeah is well had you

992
00:51:36,749 --> 00:51:33,549
developed a non-lethal weapon such as a

993
00:51:43,140 --> 00:51:36,759
feminizing spray that was used on

994
00:51:45,569 --> 00:51:43,150
opposing up opposing armies no I mean I

995
00:51:50,279 --> 00:51:45,579
think technically that would be illegal

996
00:51:53,460 --> 00:51:50,289
oh okay well you know chemical weapons

997
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:53,470
of issues chemical weapons okay this is

998
00:51:59,989 --> 00:51:57,130
an issue that we grappled with a long

999
00:52:03,059 --> 00:51:59,999
time and then we got the wrong laws even

1000
00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:03,069
Don Rumsfeld of all people complained

1001
00:52:09,269 --> 00:52:06,400
about the inability use riot control

1002
00:52:13,609 --> 00:52:09,279
agents and now we're literally forced to

1003
00:52:17,759 --> 00:52:13,619
shoot people yeah because you can't use

1004
00:52:20,220 --> 00:52:17,769
some of the alternatives but we had

1005
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:20,230
questions early on what's chemical

1006
00:52:26,279 --> 00:52:22,930
warfare can I used I for instance I've

1007
00:52:28,410 --> 00:52:26,289
I've got rioters out there rather than

1008
00:52:31,799 --> 00:52:28,420
dealing of the time I'll just spray

1009
00:52:33,950 --> 00:52:31,809
spray on with the persistent die and

1010
00:52:39,569 --> 00:52:33,960
then be able to pick people up later

1011
00:52:42,479 --> 00:52:39,579
there is that chemical warfare it is

1012
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:42,489
quite an interesting trap there are many

1013
00:52:48,420 --> 00:52:45,359
many systems and we say they range from

1014
00:52:50,940 --> 00:52:48,430
the personal systems you know about from

1015
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:50,950
pepper spray and tasers and things of

1016
00:52:56,849 --> 00:52:54,130
that nature all the way up to say

1017
00:52:59,009 --> 00:52:56,859
strategic incapacitation where you can

1018
00:53:03,630 --> 00:52:59,019
take down the infrastructure of a

1019
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:03,640
country both power and you're seeing one

1020
00:53:08,309 --> 00:53:05,710
of the arguments are the arms whether or

1021
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:08,319
not information warfare which is now

1022
00:53:13,229 --> 00:53:11,410
called cyber war would be a piece of it

1023
00:53:18,479 --> 00:53:13,239
but that's taken on a life of its own

1024
00:53:21,359 --> 00:53:18,489
indeed indeed um it's very interesting

1025
00:53:26,810 --> 00:53:21,369
to me the idea of non-lethal weapons

1026
00:53:30,590 --> 00:53:29,030
agencies and i'm not talking about US

1027
00:53:33,110 --> 00:53:30,600
government agencies I'm just talking

1028
00:53:36,830 --> 00:53:33,120
about I guess nation states would be the

1029
00:53:39,830 --> 00:53:36,840
best way to put it would prefer to and

1030
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:39,840
you know invade on the nation state next

1031
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:42,570
to them and render it people list so

1032
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:44,370
that they could go in and use it for

1033
00:53:50,030 --> 00:53:47,610
themselves so the idea of not being

1034
00:53:51,590 --> 00:53:50,040
lethal as opposed to wasn't there

1035
00:53:54,140 --> 00:53:51,600
something one time something like a

1036
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:54,150
neutron bomb which was supposed to just

1037
00:53:59,570 --> 00:53:56,610
do a little living things mom is

1038
00:54:02,240 --> 00:53:59,580
actually the antithesis of lethal

1039
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:02,250
exactly that is what you were describing

1040
00:54:08,930 --> 00:54:04,770
where I eliminate the people and keep

1041
00:54:12,140 --> 00:54:08,940
the resources right ours is the opposite

1042
00:54:14,540 --> 00:54:12,150
and one of it came out from of course

1043
00:54:17,810 --> 00:54:14,550
had muscle thinking in the military and

1044
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:17,820
is involved in conflicts but also

1045
00:54:26,330 --> 00:54:23,010
looking at safe Panama Grenada and Haiti

1046
00:54:28,310 --> 00:54:26,340
potentially I've written books by the

1047
00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:28,320
way him mentioned those but written a

1048
00:54:34,100 --> 00:54:29,910
couple of books in the field many many

1049
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:34,110
articles but the point is if you looked

1050
00:54:40,700 --> 00:54:36,780
at the stick panama for is in our

1051
00:54:42,890 --> 00:54:40,710
argument was with Noriega and a number

1052
00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:42,900
of his henchmen not with the Panamanian

1053
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:45,720
people you were going to invade and

1054
00:54:51,950 --> 00:54:49,110
we've had a historic a favorable

1055
00:54:55,370 --> 00:54:51,960
relationship with Panama for you know

1056
00:54:59,000 --> 00:54:55,380
many decades and so the outcome you

1057
00:55:01,880 --> 00:54:59,010
wanted was Noriega goes away and we

1058
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:01,890
return the country to the Panamanians

1059
00:55:07,790 --> 00:55:05,130
and have friendly relationship killing

1060
00:55:11,870 --> 00:55:07,800
them is not advantageous not the

1061
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:11,880
telephone idea was having alternatives

1062
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:16,110
that allow you to apply force without

1063
00:55:21,530 --> 00:55:19,110
necessarily killing folks well that's

1064
00:55:24,110 --> 00:55:21,540
that's preferable certainly certainly

1065
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:24,120
preferable but it would seem that a lot

1066
00:55:31,550 --> 00:55:26,880
of of nation states might have other

1067
00:55:34,070 --> 00:55:31,560
plans I would say well I also argue

1068
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:34,080
another publication that the nation

1069
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:37,770
state is a failing concept yes oh that

1070
00:55:43,730 --> 00:55:40,530
we you know that now the

1071
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:43,740
macro social collaboration is based on

1072
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:47,130
belief system written some articles

1073
00:55:53,330 --> 00:55:50,490
recently about Isis and how to take care

1074
00:55:59,150 --> 00:55:53,340
of that problem that published in The

1075
00:56:01,490 --> 00:55:59,160
Huffington Post but the focus is on you

1076
00:56:03,950 --> 00:56:01,500
know that they can now get together and

1077
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:03,960
cause things to happen because of

1078
00:56:08,990 --> 00:56:06,570
information technology that not only

1079
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,000
allows them to recruit but as you seen

1080
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:12,240
recently actually cause people to go out

1081
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:14,250
and do things you really have no

1082
00:56:19,370 --> 00:56:17,040
physical contact with them it's amazing

1083
00:56:22,910 --> 00:56:19,380
would you like to mention some of your

1084
00:56:25,850 --> 00:56:22,920
other books that we did not mention well

1085
00:56:27,980 --> 00:56:25,860
yes of course the Warriors edge was the

1086
00:56:30,590 --> 00:56:27,990
first one which based on the info its

1087
00:56:33,410 --> 00:56:30,600
community some if you can find it that's

1088
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:33,420
really out of print cost far too much

1089
00:56:40,250 --> 00:56:36,450
but there I did talk about the metal

1090
00:56:43,070 --> 00:56:40,260
bending and remote viewing and NLP

1091
00:56:46,430 --> 00:56:43,080
research and that future war was the

1092
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:46,440
first one on non-lethal weapons and I

1093
00:56:54,500 --> 00:56:49,370
did winning the war which was a sequel

1094
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:54,510
to that and again it was um the advances

1095
00:56:59,180 --> 00:56:56,250
that had taken place and non-lethal

1096
00:57:03,080 --> 00:56:59,190
weaponry i went from mom legal to hyper

1097
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,090
lethal systems uh-huh well I'm sure that

1098
00:57:08,780 --> 00:57:05,520
you know some of our listeners who you

1099
00:57:10,100 --> 00:57:08,790
know military UFO type people who have

1100
00:57:12,290 --> 00:57:10,110
been on the show and may be listening

1101
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:12,300
would definitely be interested in

1102
00:57:20,330 --> 00:57:16,530
reading those as I would and in terms of

1103
00:57:21,830 --> 00:57:20,340
ISIL or the ish that each where they

1104
00:57:23,450 --> 00:57:21,840
getting the money I think if you follow

1105
00:57:24,980 --> 00:57:23,460
the money that might be part of the

1106
00:57:27,830 --> 00:57:24,990
answer following I mean it's just a

1107
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:27,840
layman's point of view I'm not you you

1108
00:57:31,100 --> 00:57:29,730
know I'm not an expert on it but it

1109
00:57:33,650 --> 00:57:31,110
seems to me they're selling that oil

1110
00:57:37,130 --> 00:57:33,660
somewhere and getting the money from

1111
00:57:40,550 --> 00:57:37,140
that well it is but they have also

1112
00:57:46,070 --> 00:57:40,560
developed means literally taking over

1113
00:57:48,290 --> 00:57:46,080
banks of the arm much of the arms have

1114
00:57:51,770 --> 00:57:48,300
been just captured a lot of something we

1115
00:57:53,060 --> 00:57:51,780
had delivered to the Iraqi army has been

1116
00:57:56,740 --> 00:57:53,070
captured and used by the

1117
00:58:00,350 --> 00:57:56,750
them they are involved in arms trade

1118
00:58:03,170 --> 00:58:00,360
human trafficking is a major source of

1119
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:03,180
reason or for them taking over oil

1120
00:58:10,610 --> 00:58:07,890
fields yeah I think they're eminently

1121
00:58:14,450 --> 00:58:10,620
beatable again i wrote to this earlier

1122
00:58:16,460 --> 00:58:14,460
is in February but I don't think it's

1123
00:58:19,550 --> 00:58:16,470
our fight I don't think it's something

1124
00:58:24,230 --> 00:58:19,560
that we can do and as long as the u.s.

1125
00:58:29,060 --> 00:58:24,240
is seen as either integrally involved a

1126
00:58:32,660 --> 00:58:29,070
certain a leading it Isis them as an

1127
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:32,670
infinite supply of recruits right right

1128
00:58:39,290 --> 00:58:36,000
and their stated objective is to draw us

1129
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:39,300
into the fight and they also know that

1130
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:41,760
it's the best recruiting instrument that

1131
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:45,330
they have right so I was go ahead oh no

1132
00:58:50,090 --> 00:58:48,090
it's good to see you ID at this point

1133
00:58:53,860 --> 00:58:50,100
would be not to so much ignore him but

1134
00:58:59,600 --> 00:58:56,840
unfortunately I think this is a fight

1135
00:59:05,480 --> 00:58:59,610
that that they have got to have and it's

1136
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:05,490
going to be very very messy I mean since

1137
00:59:12,530 --> 00:59:08,960
13th century it's been ongoing with

1138
00:59:15,590 --> 00:59:12,540
between the Sunni and Shia but i think

1139
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:15,600
this brand is so extreme that the

1140
00:59:20,780 --> 00:59:18,330
eventually be extinguished and one of my

1141
00:59:23,540 --> 00:59:20,790
early articles pointed out that there's

1142
00:59:27,530 --> 00:59:23,550
adequate force available to do this

1143
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:27,540
without the US for instance turkey was

1144
00:59:35,150 --> 00:59:31,140
sitting on the sideline is 43 armored

1145
00:59:38,570 --> 00:59:35,160
battalions they have chosen to do

1146
00:59:40,790 --> 00:59:38,580
nothing of course we've just seen a huge

1147
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:40,800
government change their over the past

1148
00:59:46,940 --> 00:59:44,850
weekend yes yes but uh if you look at

1149
00:59:50,060 --> 00:59:46,950
the forces that are combined and you

1150
00:59:53,090 --> 00:59:50,070
might have some uncomfortable allies I

1151
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:53,100
what do we do with Iran unfortunately we

1152
00:59:58,730 --> 00:59:56,250
have chosen to demonize Iran which i

1153
01:00:05,960 --> 00:59:58,740
think is the wrong strategic move to

1154
01:00:06,500 --> 01:00:05,970
make that you know they have adequate

1155
01:00:09,980 --> 01:00:06,510
arm for

1156
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:09,990
and they don't have to wait to train the

1157
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:15,050
Iraqi army which we've spent billions

1158
01:00:19,970 --> 01:00:17,910
hundreds of billions on already and it

1159
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:19,980
has proven to be totally ineffective and

1160
01:00:25,340 --> 01:00:22,290
I don't think doing more of the same is

1161
01:00:28,220 --> 01:00:25,350
going to work well I guess I would have

1162
01:00:32,300 --> 01:00:28,230
to agree with you and unfortunately our

1163
01:00:37,310 --> 01:00:32,310
time has run out here I do want to ask

1164
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:37,320
you one final question which is do you

1165
01:00:45,710 --> 01:00:41,010
see the human race lasting to the end of

1166
01:00:48,290 --> 01:00:45,720
the century oh I think something will

1167
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:48,300
certainly last what exactly what we look

1168
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:52,490
like me change but remember we're at

1169
01:01:00,020 --> 01:00:55,520
seven eight billion and Counting

1170
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:00,030
expanding to rapidly but I think there

1171
01:01:08,930 --> 01:01:05,450
will be early dramatic changes

1172
01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:08,940
unfortunately the beginning social logic

1173
01:01:15,050 --> 01:01:11,040
economic issues of the split between

1174
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:15,060
haves and have-nots I think our is going

1175
01:01:22,580 --> 01:01:19,410
to be the major dividing force for the

1176
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:22,590
future and you know you have the elitist

1177
01:01:27,170 --> 01:01:24,240
will certainly move out in some

1178
01:01:31,940 --> 01:01:27,180
direction whether they can survive or

1179
01:01:34,970 --> 01:01:31,950
the have-nots get you know rise up and

1180
01:01:37,100 --> 01:01:34,980
do something it remains to be seen well

1181
01:01:39,710 --> 01:01:37,110
I guess it's always the case the rich

1182
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:39,720
get richer and the poor get poorer but

1183
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:41,850
dr. Alexander dis has I thought it was

1184
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:44,010
rich get richer the poor get babies oh

1185
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:49,440
yeah that's that I I cannot thank you

1186
01:01:53,870 --> 01:01:51,570
enough for taking the time you are a man

1187
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:53,880
of incredible accomplishments thank you

1188
01:01:57,650 --> 01:01:55,770
so much for taking this time to spend

1189
01:01:59,540 --> 01:01:57,660
with it yes thank you it's been a

1190
01:02:02,270 --> 01:01:59,550
wonderful experience speaking with you

1191
01:02:04,430 --> 01:02:02,280
and we hope to have you back again if

1192
01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:04,440
you're willing thank you okay thank you

1193
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:09,300
thanks bye so uh goodbye from Kate and

1194
01:02:16,460 --> 01:02:12,330
farrugia here please like us on iTunes

1195
01:02:20,329 --> 01:02:16,470
and honestly it's so difficult to

1196
01:02:23,479 --> 01:02:20,339
interview a man like dr. Alexander it's

1197
01:02:25,549 --> 01:02:23,489
cadee interviewer encyclopedia well he

1198
01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:25,559
is he's an incredible resource he knows

1199
01:02:30,769 --> 01:02:28,920
so many people yeah and he's done so

1200
01:02:33,410 --> 01:02:30,779
many things we didn't even really get

1201
01:02:36,769 --> 01:02:33,420
into the shame anism very much would

1202
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:36,779
have loved to hear more about the the

1203
01:02:42,650 --> 01:02:39,210
shaman's up in Siberia that he visited

1204
01:02:45,559 --> 01:02:42,660
and Nepal and all the places he's been I

1205
01:02:48,049 --> 01:02:45,569
mean I'm an inveterate traveler and I

1206
01:02:51,019 --> 01:02:48,059
can't I can't even scratch what he's

1207
01:02:53,359 --> 01:02:51,029
done yeah yeah very fortunate man and

1208
01:02:55,219 --> 01:02:53,369
again I all through his book though he

1209
01:02:57,920 --> 01:02:55,229
always refers to destiny and being

1210
01:03:00,469 --> 01:02:57,930
pushed along that path and I think he

1211
01:03:04,430 --> 01:03:00,479
has been well he's obviously an

1212
01:03:06,650 --> 01:03:04,440
extraordinary fellow uh but next week we

1213
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:06,660
have another extraordinary fellow yes we

1214
01:03:13,729 --> 01:03:09,930
do actually in two weeks from today we

1215
01:03:17,509 --> 01:03:13,739
have them absolutely phenomenally

1216
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:17,519
interesting Alex Karras who has his own

1217
01:03:26,839 --> 01:03:23,130
a podcast called skeptic oh and he is a

1218
01:03:30,709 --> 01:03:26,849
big promoter of consciousness as opposed

1219
01:03:33,109 --> 01:03:30,719
to the mechanistic materialistic view of

1220
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:33,119
the universe and the people are way on

1221
01:03:40,849 --> 01:03:37,130
the other side of that the the kind of

1222
01:03:43,700 --> 01:03:40,859
religious zealots on the far on the far

1223
01:03:46,370 --> 01:03:43,710
right and the the materialist I'm not

1224
01:03:48,579 --> 01:03:46,380
talking about the politics here but just

1225
01:03:51,709 --> 01:03:48,589
on one side of the divide we have

1226
01:03:53,779 --> 01:03:51,719
fundamental religious crazies and on the

1227
01:03:55,819 --> 01:03:53,789
other side are the people who thinks

1228
01:03:59,209 --> 01:03:55,829
we're just meat puppets and he stands

1229
01:04:01,630 --> 01:03:59,219
firmly in between for consciousness so

1230
01:04:04,729 --> 01:04:01,640
we are looking forward to speaking with

1231
01:04:07,130 --> 01:04:04,739
with Alex to Karis and thanks for tuning

1232
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:07,140
in please like us on Facebook Like us on